How Wilson Sporting Goods puts Culture First, with CEO Joe Dudy

Damon Klotz:

Hi, everyone. It's Damon Klotz, host of the Culture First Podcast. Before we start with today's episode, I wanted to let you know that tickets are now on sale for Culture First Americas. I am very biased, but the lineup is fantastic. There will be main stage keynotes that will challenge and inspire you as well as our breakout sessions and workshops that are going to be all about actionable tips that you can take to put culture first. But please don't take my word for it. If you head to the link in the episode summary, wherever you're listening to this show, you can see all of those speakers and much, much more. All right, let's get started.

Joe Dudy:

There's two kinds of people in a company. There's the culture consumers and there's the culture creators. And that's a big part of bringing to life our culture and our values is we just reinforce with managers and people. It's everyone role to create a culture.

Intro Song:

Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First. Culture First.

Damon Klotz:

I'm Damon Klotz and this is Culture First. What you're about to hear is something that I've wanted to do for a long time on this podcast. This is a multi-part series where we're going to go behind the scenes and learn about how one company puts Culture First. Throughout my career, I've interviewed thousands of leaders from companies of all sizes, industries, and geographies. But there was always this desire to learn about one company from a few different perspectives. So when I spoke about this idea with the customer team here at Culture Amp, I knew it was going to be both easy and challenging to try to work out which company to pick. Now, the easy part was knowing that we had a lot of options. When I joined Culture Amp in 2015, we had a little over 100 customers, many of whom were very famous Silicon Valley tech companies. Fast forward to today, though, Culture Amp has nearly 7,000 customers from 193 countries around the world. So, of course, the hard part was going to be how do we pick one company out of the thousands who have a story to share?

Damon Klotz:

We decided to partner with a company that most of the world had heard of. One with a storied history who's been in operation for over 100 years. This is a company that was willing to go on the record and talk directly about their story, to have leaders speak about how they think about employee experience, and to hear a CEO talk about the role that feedback plays in building their culture. And then, finally, we're actually going to meet with a manager, a manager who's taking this organization into an exciting new direction.

Damon Klotz:

Now I'm laughing a little bit here because I'm saying all of this like I'm about to do some grand reveal of who the company is, and I know that podcast software hasn't evolved enough for me to be able to do a reveal of the company's name at a specific timestamp. So, yes, I do know that you've already clicked on this episode, because you want to learn more about Wilson Sporting Goods. So here we are, part one in a multi-part series, where we'll learn about Wilson Sporting Goods. And to kick off this series, I'm speaking with Wilson's CEO and chairman, Joe Dudy. All right, let's get started and jump straight into my conversation with Joe.

Damon Klotz:

So today on the Culture First Podcast, we're going to be learning about the history, brand and culture of Wilson Sporting Goods. And in order to do that, we've gone straight to the top to speak with Joe Dudy, the president and CEO of Wilson. So, Joe, first, welcome to the Culture First Podcast.

Joe Dudy:

Thank you, Damon. It's an honor to be here and I'm excited to talk to you today.

Damon Klotz:

So I'd like to start with a little bit of a backstory on you as a person before we focus on Wilson. So to give the audience some context, where are you currently located in the world?

Joe Dudy:

Right now, I'm living in Chicago. That's where the headquarters of Wilson Sporting Goods is. And then we've been there since 1914, since we were founded. I moved there from Indiana almost right out of college and it's been 25 year or 27 years, I take that back, experience with Wilson.

Damon Klotz:

So do you call Indiana home or Chicago now taken you in as one of its own?

Joe Dudy:

I would have to say Chicago and I do love it here. I've moved away once and couldn't wait to get back with the culture and everything that the city has to offer. It is one of the most livable cities. I think I even saw recently, it's one of the best cities in the world to live in. And it's also probably the longest I've ever lived anywhere now, which has been great.

Damon Klotz:

I was lucky to spend a lot of time in Chicago for work over the last six or seven years. And I always tell people, a lot of Australians don't go there when they travel to the U.S. It's always Hawaii, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Vegas. And I'm like, "You're missing out. Chicago has got incredible food, incredible culture, and some of the best architecture I've ever seen." So I'm a big Chicago advocate.

Joe Dudy:

And it's a great city. And one of the things where it always wins too versus some of the other big cities in the U.S. is they call it one of the most livable cities. If you're not used to a big city, it can seem expensive, but relative to the San Franciscos and New York and you have more space, cost of living's a little bit better, but still offers everything that a major city would. It's great.

Damon Klotz:

I have to interrupt for a quick second to admit something to you. It was at this moment that it was incredibly tempting to ask Joe this burning question that I had about a particular Wilson product. You probably know which one I'm referring to, but you're going to have to listen to the end to hear that question and the answer does not disappoint. But considering it was the start of the interview, I thought we should really start by asking Joe what was his first ever Wilson product? Do you remember what your first Wilson product was?

Joe Dudy:

Oh, definitely. The first one was an NFL junior football and I loved that football. And I know every time that we had a group of kids together and they would always ask me to bring my football there. And that thing was just a beauty. It was real leather, easy to throw. Everyone loved that ball. That was definitely my first pride and wish I still had that today.

Damon Klotz:

There's so many of those things from our childhood where they mean so much to us, when we get older that we kind of wish that we still held onto. But at least you've still got the memories and I'm sure you're surrounded by more than enough Wilson footballs these days.

Joe Dudy:

Oh, yeah. It's great being in all these sports.

Damon Klotz:

So one of the questions that I always ask guests on the Culture First Podcast is about how to describe their work. And the way that I do it is in a bit of a different format. Basically imagine, Joe, a very curious 10 year old, has walked up to you in Chicago and they say, "Excuse me, sir. What do you do for work?" How do you answer?

Joe Dudy:

I would say that what I do for work is to make sure that we're scanning the external environment and understanding what the opportunities and risks are, and we're making sure that the company's strategies and their resources are aligned to that. And really what it comes down to is it's really probably back to the culture is making sure that we have the people that can take advantage of those opportunities and that they're energized and excited and empowered to create value and opportunity for the company. It's my job to make sure that we are very clear as to what those are and that we have the right people to make it happen.

Damon Klotz:

And you've had a really fascinating, I guess, career at Wilson. I was looking at the careers page of your website recently and there was a quote there that says, "Every pro started as a rookie," and it was highlighting the internship program that you have there. And I know you didn't start as an intern, but you very much started at a very entry level role and made your weight of the top. So can you share with the audience just what that journey was?

Joe Dudy:

Sure. And, yeah, there was a lot of, I'd say, moments in there that made the difference to get me where I am today. And I never would've thought that I would've been at the same company for 27 years. I thought that when I started here as an entry level accountant. I don't even think people find roles these days, but it was a classified ad in the newspaper for an entry level accountant at Wilson Sporting Goods in tennis. And I was really excited about that, being in sports. But one of the things that I would say is that I didn't do my due diligence at the time and the company wasn't doing very well. And at that time, we were a loss making company. We were recently spun off from a bigger company that owned us and had some private equity and bought into our current ownership and they needed to make changes.

Joe Dudy:

And what ended up happening was the first 6 to 12 months that I was there, they had to do some major, major downsizing and restructuring, which was unfortunate and very scary at the time. But I would say the benefit of it, I was lucky to be one of those who was still retained a role. But what happened was we downsized probably almost a third of the company. And the outcome of that, which was an opportunity, was the fact that I ended up, very early in my career, picking up a significant amount of responsibility. There was a lot of work and growth to come around and I would say in those first three years I was promoted to three different roles and getting continued increased responsibilities and expanded responsibilities within the company. And that was really the start. And it was a big acceleration from the fewer people on the amount of work.

Joe Dudy:

And I always said to people that one of the things I liked about Wilson is I felt like it was big enough that there was an opportunity to learn everything, but it was small enough that we had the opportunity to still do everything. I really think it's the ability to continue to learn and grow. I'm big on the whole growth mindset and you really got to let go of those things. Even becoming the CEO of Wilson, I have a great finance team that I built from the past and have promoted people to take those roles over and it's really letting go of that even now and not cling onto what I know and letting them take the lead and letting them do things the way they want and making sure that I move in and let go into what I need to do and focus on.

Joe Dudy:

I always say now the best two things that I could do, and maybe this would've been a better answer to when you said if the 10 year old asked me what I do is I really think that I have to spend all my time on people and brand and if I do those things right, the company's going to do really well. It's really that simple. We have to have great people, they have to be excited to work for Wilson and our brand has to be very strong. And that comes from a lot of different things between products and marketing and our community. And success happens. We actually have a philosophy that's basic at Wilson, we always say, "Our priorities are people, brands and business." And it's always, if you get the people in the brand thing, the business will happen.

Damon Klotz:

Definitely. And I have a follow-up question on that exact topic, because it's something I spend a lot of time thinking about. But I was taking some notes as you were sharing that and I think there were some really phenomenal takeaways for everyone listening, which is there'll be moments in your career where you need to understand the trade off between learning and earning. Another opportunity might be an earning opportunity but there might be a reduction in scope. And I think especially for people who work at startups, there is that trade off where if you join an early stage startup, there is not a huge amount of earning in the early days when they're boots strapped or if they've only raised a little bit of money. But there's a huge learning opportunity. And like you said in that time during the restructure and the reduction in force, you had to take on multiple roles and take on new opportunity and roll with it, which I think is an incredible time to learn.

Damon Klotz:

And then I think the final takeaway and one that I've mentioned a lot on the podcast before is this idea of when you change roles and when you navigate new opportunities, you've got to let go of the Legos and be okay with other people playing with them, even if they don't build it in the way that you want. Even if you think that there's a different way to do it, you really have to let go of those legos, because I think that's what slows us down from progressing into new opportunities is when we try to hold onto the past, because we feel like we still want some ownership over that.

Joe Dudy:

Right. Those are definitely great takeaways. You really got the key points out of there. And I would even just add onto the other one, because I think of letting go and not holding on, that's for me, but also it's about everyone else. And I'm sure my finance leader wouldn't want me to be micromanaging and hanging in there too. They want to own and lead in their way and do what they want. And I have so many experiences every time a role has been replaced behind me, even though I thought I did well and I'm sure people thought I did well, it always seems like somebody does it better.

Damon Klotz:

Exactly. So we're going to learn about I guess your role within Wilson, but I think in order to do that we need to learn a little bit more about Wilson, the company, which might sound funny in saying that, because I'm sure a lot of people have some understanding of the brand or probably have owned one of the products. I know growing up I very much remember the black tennis racket. I think it was a Wilson Pro Staff that my dad had with red and yellow stripes on the side and that's ingrained in my memory. But I wanted to rattle off some sort of fun facts and then maybe you can fill in the gaps of some other facts that people might not know.

Damon Klotz:

But from my research and, as you mentioned, the company's headquartered in Chicago, Illinois and you've got offices and staff in more than 100 countries and that the global team is over 1,600 strong. I also found out that every single pass ever made in the NFL has been with a Wilson ball, which is nicknamed the Duke. I've also learned that Wilson is the number one equipment brand across more sports than any other brand. And that recently, which I think is really exciting, we'll touch on this later, is that you've switched from just being a products company to a retailer and you launched your first brick and mortar store in Chicago in 2021 and then you've had a flagship store in New York and you've moved into apparel. So maybe some people didn't know that. I'm sure many people have got their own version of Wilson, but are there any other fun facts or foundational elements that people should know about the company before we learn more about the culture?

Joe Dudy:

Yeah. One of the things is that we always say we were one of the most, or the first sustainable company too, because we started in the early days in Chicago in the stock yards as a meat packing company and they were looking for opportunities to use some of the byproducts and that's how gut tennis strings started and bladders for balls and that's how Wilson originated and it's neat to come from that history. But, as you said, there's no brand in the equipment space that has led sports like Wilson has. And I think our brand has been really humble. Really, I think it's part of coming from the Midwest and Chicago, but we lead in so many sports and we haven't really told that story and we're starting to get that message out more. And that's a big part of the retail strategy, so people can physically experience the Wilson brand and where we lead in all these sports. And we like to say, "We're the number one tennis company in the world. We're the number one footballs company in the world. We're the number one baseballs company in the world."

Joe Dudy:

We're soon to be, I think we're there, but with the recent partnership with the NBA, this was our first season in 2021 as the official ball of the NBA. And we will be, if not close to, already the number one basketballs company in the world. And then our history in golf, most people don't know that Wilson advisory staff, like tour players, have won more majors than any other brand in golf. It's a significant achievement. We've won a major in every decade, I think, in the last 9 or 10 decades. And so they're just interesting facts. And I think I would also add one thing, we always call ourselves Wilson and that's really our primary brand, but most people don't know that we also own, and this is what makes us one of the largest baseball companies in the world, is we own the brands DeMarini, which is a bat brand and we also own Louisville Slugger, which is a very historic, has a lot of heritage, I'm sure people know that brand.

Joe Dudy:

And then an emerging brand now that it's called EvoShield. Most people tend to not know it until you start to put it in their mind, but it's the protective baseball company where it's on the elbow and the shin guards and we have that company too. And then we have a smaller company, ATEC, which is a pitching machine company. So we are a portfolio of brands even though we do call ourselves Wilson.

Damon Klotz:

It's incredible to think about just how much history there is there and how many products are being used every single day. And I think that's what's exciting about having you on the podcast and telling this whole Wilson story is like there is this brand moment for you where you are doing something different and you are building these retail stores and we're getting a chance to actually learn about the company, learn about the history of it as well as the culture, which I think is going to be really exciting. Because there's not too many examples of people who've had so many brand moments with a product already without maybe knowing the history of a company. So I think it's really interesting to have that moment now.

Joe Dudy:

Right. And I feel like we've been a great company. We make the best products and we market those products really well, but we really haven't told that story of Wilson and made that emotional connection with consumers and that's really what our goal is during this next journey. And the retail stores play a big role in that. And I would say the first week we opened our first store in Chicago, the Heritage store, and I was able to be in there and see consumers come in and be like, "Wilson? Really?" And sometimes you can get a little narrow, like if you're a baseball player, you just know us for this. And if you're tennis, you know us for this. But you don't understand that Wilson's the official football for the NFL, the official basketball for the NBA, the AVP volleyball, they have these tour players in golf and tennis. And it's just so powerful when you see it together and you don't get to see it together a lot.

Joe Dudy:

I call it a bit of a brand reawakening as someone comes in, because they have these childhood memories of using our products in one way or another in a sport. And then they might have gone off where they're not playing these sports anymore or kind of aged out and the brand still means something to them but it's maybe not as relevant in their current life. And that's the reawakening and that's where we want to come into the market with functional and technical performance apparel to keep that relationship with these consumers.

Damon Klotz:

Definitely. Like I said, it's a very exciting time for Wilson. And let's shift gears into the culture and the values. I think it's really important to talk at the high level really about the mission, the values and the culture and then we can get into your relationship with, I guess, as the CEO, how you see that play out. But would you mind sharing, I guess, the company purpose and vision? Because when I heard you share it with me earlier, it's incredibly powerful.

Joe Dudy:

Sure. Well, our purpose is to empower every human to live like an athlete. And what that means to us is not necessarily physically living like an athlete and playing a sport, but what it is it's living life like an athlete and that person wanting to continue to grow, to move on to new things, to work really hard, to sometimes fail, that resilience to get back up and persevere. And it can be anything. It could be the way that an athlete leaves high school and goes on to college and it's the way that they approach their academics to live like an athlete, the way they learn and go through college. It could be the way we parent. It could be the way that I'm an employee at Wilson and I lived my inner athlete over 27 years. It was that continuing to learn and grow. And a lot of it wasn't easy. There was a lot of times to get knocked back down and getting back up.

Joe Dudy:

And you know the line that they always say that it's the behind the scenes when the lights are off is really when all the hard work happens to get the success. And sometimes people only see the success. And that's what really living like an inner athlete is. And it's living that way through everything in your life.

Damon Klotz:

And then the company vision?

Joe Dudy:

The vision is a better world through sport. And we do think that that's really important. And if you think of the things that sports bring to life, they definitely give us purpose, they provide joy. And what I like the most too is they provide community and bring people together. It doesn't matter if you're playing a sport or if you're a fan of a sport, you might even be a parent of a kid in a sport and you come together and it creates this community. So it brings people together. And I think one of the lines that we thought about through this thing is, and we did an interview, it was funny with some of our employees and we asked them, "Could you imagine what would a world look like without sport?" And it was pretty sad. So we feel great that we can be a part of something that makes the world better.

Joe Dudy:

And I think what happens at the core of this too is a better world through sport and empowering every human to live an athlete is one of the things that sports do is they do give us those life skills to move on beyond sport to be able to continue to be successful and to learn how to accept challenges, go after opportunities, how to learn and grow. And I think sports are the foundation that teach us as we're young how to do that. And they don't have to only be when we're young. Like tennis and golf and some of these other sports are going to be lifetime sports. And I'm still learning in golf and I have to be resilient every day or every shot pretty much. So we're really proud to be a part of that industry and being able to make people's lives better through this.

Damon Klotz:

Certainly, I think sometimes in corporate workplace environments, we create these fake test environments to test people out or put people through training. But I think, to your point, so much of those things around resilience and even learning how to deal with your own inner voice and mental health, so much of that can be processed as well through sport. And I've been recently playing a lot of tennis with my youngest brother and it's so interesting to see when his mental resilience cracks and I know that I'll win the next five points straight, because his head has gone from that game and he needs to get that back. And I know at the side of the pandemic when a lot of the sports was shut down, I think the world felt it as well. The world felt that moment where there wasn't as much sport and that we didn't have that thing to rally around. And it does play such an important role.

Joe Dudy:

And I think that's why you saw people even gravitate to other sports and we saw where some sports were shut down, they moved into other sports, which was not common. People tend to specialize in sports these days and it was great to see people take on pickleball and tennis and golf. They all exploded over that time period, because people needed that outlet and that experience. And I think that's one of the interesting things about sports, because you hear these things about do people consume things or do they choose experiences? And I don't know where we fit in that, because we do sell stuff, like a bat and a glove, but we're also doing that for an experience, so people can play the sport, learn, and I do think there's huge social experiences from that. And I think we're lucky because we're in the middle of both of those.

Damon Klotz:

So as we move onto, I guess, the culture and the values of the company, I think one of the things that I talk about a lot on this show is that often we talk a lot about what people do, what the job is, what the task is. But I really advocate for talking more about how of the work and how people get things done is just as important as what they do. So at Wilson, how do we employees work when they're at their best? How do your values come to life?

Joe Dudy:

Sure. Well, I think the big thing is not working out of fear and it's working out of excitement and it's getting in that flow state. And it's when that time flies by. But Wilson's always had a great culture and we do get a lot of people from sports who are passionate about it and they want to do well and be successful. And I think for us as we thought about what culture we want, the thing that we've learned the most over the last three years, and I'm so glad that we did it, because I think this work is even more important now that we've gone through the pandemic and we were really remote and flexible work by choice. So what I think we've learned is, although we've had a great culture over the history of Wilson, we have to be really more intentional about how we manage it and make sure that we're providing that great work experience for our employees, so they can be productive. And so we're listening to them and understanding their needs.

Joe Dudy:

And I think that's one of the big things we've done is we've partnered with Culture Amp and we've really taken that opportunity to commit to the surveys and to listening and doing it every year. We've put resources towards also our HR team to meet with every manager and understand the feedback that's come through their teams and what they like and what they don't like. And we choose usually one thing and every area to make sure that we can focus on every year to improve those areas. And it can be very different depending on the departments. And this was so important to me that I met with the HR team who took this on with each manager to make sure that I sat through every one to make sure that I understood and so I could learn and see what's really going on and what our employees saying, what are their needs? What do they love, what do they not like? And it's been a great experience.

Damon Klotz:

I'd love to learn more about that. As the president and CEO, what are the people metrics that really stand out to you when it comes to measure the employee experience? What are those conversations with those managers like?

Joe Dudy:

And I will say it's hard. So our first one was during the pandemic and just coming out of some of the challenges we went through. So we knew that it was going to be really hard to hear some of the feedback. I knew that. And it's never going to be easy, because we're not ever perfect. So there's always going to be things. So it can be difficult. But one of the reasons why I sat through these meetings too is I wanted to support our managers and I wanted them to know that it's going to be hard and it's going to sting some of the things that you could hear, but I think you shouldn't be disappointed in what you hear, but you should be disappointed in what we do about it. If we don't do anything and we don't try to continue to incrementally improve and listen and solve the challenges, then I think that's what we should be disappointed in. It shouldn't be in necessarily what we hear. And it can be hard. And that's part of that growth experience and continuing to move forward.

Joe Dudy:

And one of the metrics that came out of that, after the first one we did and then we did the second one a year later, we'll do another one next year, the surveys. But one of the things that was very positive is we improved 19 points on, "I believe something will happen as an outcome of the survey." And to me that's powerful, because that means that they feel heard, they feel like their voice makes a difference and that we're going to do something different. And that's a very important metric to me. And when we look at the surveys too, it's "Do you have the tools and resources to do your job? Are you proud to work for our brand? Would you recommend a friend to work here?" Those are all really high and positive. And one of the things that we're most proud of too is that probably one of our highest scores is that people believe we make the best products in the industry and that's something that makes us really proud.

Damon Klotz:

I think that's so powerful about having this feedback strategy and being able to repeat this process is the change in numbers that you shared is incredibly significant. That is a tremendous change. Often we talk about if there's a four or five point difference, that is a very good improvement. But to get up to that double digit level, that has actually shown that there has been a company culture change, that people are saying, "Not only are they listening to my feedback, but they're going to do something about it." And that actually changes the motivations inside of teams and for individuals, knowing that "This is a place where there is open dialogue about my experience here, but not just dialogue that gets heard and nothing happens. Dialogue where things change." And that takes some companies years and years to get the internal trust that things are going to be different. So for you to experience that in such a short period of time really is something that you should be very proud of.

Joe Dudy:

Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks. And we expect that to continue, because we're committed to this and, like I said, when we talk people, brand, business, I think historically we didn't totally know what the people piece was. It was a little soft, but it really is about this and it's about intentionally managing that work experience and the needs of our employees. And like I said, it becomes even more important now when in this world that's just a bit different with the remote working and flexibility. But I always say too, and this might be a little bit of a sidetrack, but I think it's an important point, is everyone's always pushing, "When you going to come back to the office?" Not internally. In our company, I think it's working. We're doing really well, we have no intentions to change things, but outside there can be some pressures. And I always say, "Hey, listen, there were a lot of bad companies with bad cultures when everybody came to the office every day. So don't use that as a crutch and think that that's going to solve."

Joe Dudy:

The culture is something that's intangible that you can't touch and feel, so it's an easy out, I think, to say, "Oh, we're going to fix the culture by physically coming in every day." I do think there's a value to being together in cases and things like that, but it's something different. It's more about, like what you said, it's that providing a voice and listening and taking action. And what we really do say too is we do what we say, because we have to have credibility and trust.

Damon Klotz:

I think you raised is a really good point. I think there's a lot of when a company's operating out of fear, they go back to what they know and what they know might be everyone in the office. But if there is a foundational element missing, if the company mission, the vision, the values, the cultural architecture, the operating system, if that's not there, they're bringing people back to the office will probably just expose that quicker. It'll probably be even more evident that those things don't exist. So I think you got to do this work, like you said in the shadows when no one's watching, so that things actually do change and that companies feel that change, because they're not just going to feel it by bringing everyone back. If anything, it might actually expose that "Actually, maybe this isn't the best place for me. This isn't a company that really cares about the culture and the mission and the vision or even my role within it."

Damon Klotz:

So you're not the only CEO out there right now who is trying to grapple with this. But I think underneath that there is a lot more to it about actually focusing on the culture.

Joe Dudy:

And when I talked to my HR leader the other day, I used the line with him is "There's going to be a lot of people telling us what we need to do and there's going to be a lot of companies making certain decisions, but we'll continue see and learn, but let's try to stay focused on what's right for us in our company and we're going to stick to that." And one of the things we say, which is part of the culture too, which is an important point, and we said this even in this remote working, if it works from a culture perspective or if it works from remote working, but it's back to the culture. We have this line, and I learned it from one of our new teammates that came into the company a couple years ago, but he's calls it, there's two kinds of people in a company. There's the culture consumers and there's the culture creators.

Joe Dudy:

And that's a big part of bringing to life our culture and our values is we just reinforce with managers and people. It's everyone plays a role in creating a culture. Joe Dudy sitting here as the president of the company isn't going to be able to just create this culture and say, "Oh, we're going to have a great culture and let's do it," or whatever. It's everyone in the company that has a responsibility and you can either be a culture consumer that lets things happens and waits or you can be the culture creator that helps us all create the culture that we want. And I think it's a responsibility of everyone to create this work environment and work experience that is positive, productive, and that we all want to be a part of.

Damon Klotz:

You mentioned about meeting with the people team and the HR team at Wilson and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of chief people officers and people leaders listening to this who would love to have a really strong relationship with the CEO. What advice do you have for people leaders, for HR leaders out there to create that strong relationship with someone like yourself?

Joe Dudy:

I don't know. I don't know if it's me, because I've heard a long time, the whole time that I was a finance person throughout the company, through most of my career that "You're not the typical finance person." And there was a lot of, I think, people believed in me before I believed in myself that "You should be the president of the company. You should be the CEO." And the line that I hear a lot in that is people would come to me and they would always say, "You're very approachable and you're normal." And it does drive me crazy. I hear the line sometimes, "You're human." And I'm like, "Well, of course, I am. I'm a human." But I think it's important for the people in the leadership roles to be approachable and open minded and listening to. And I think that that's what helps a lot in it.

Joe Dudy:

And I know I've used this before I saw it, I think it's a Microsoft thing, but it goes back to that growth mindset too. And I think this is where you can build those strong relationships. So there's this thing called this know-it-all mindset, they call it, or this learn-it-all mindset. And if you have the know-it-all, that means you got that fixed mindset that you're not going to be open minded. I'm probably not going to be approachable. My HR leaders and people who are in charge of the people engagement culture are not going to want to talk to me. But if I'm a learn-it-all, and I think I said that earlier, that was one of the reasons why I attended every manager meeting. There's probably two reasons. I wanted that manager to know that they should be confident and they're not being judged by the results so much, but they're being judged as how we respond to those results. But I also wanted to learn from the standpoint is because I want to know what's really going on.

Damon Klotz:

And then I guess, what do you look for from the people leadership team? What role do you want them to play in helping you create the company culture that Wilson can and should have?

Joe Dudy:

I think it's important to me, as leaders of Wilson, we've been around, it's a little over 108 years and we've been great in equipment. We've been a little bit stagnant in our business size and we've finally broken through to that. We've been growing crazy over the last three years through some of our strategic initiatives. But I think what I want from my leaders more than anything is I want them to take the ceiling off of what our potential is, so we don't block ourselves as to what Wilson can be. Because, as you said, we're going through a brand moment and we could be a much bigger and more impactful company in the world than what we are today. And I need the leaders of Wilson to be able to believe in that and I need them to cascade that, so that we don't feel that we're boxed into as to what we can be. And we just look at our potential and the opportunity that's out there.

Joe Dudy:

And when I ended up getting this role, I've used this a lot through board meetings and through the employees, it's funny, is the long time that I worked here and people found out that I was the CFO of the company, they would always ask, "Well, oh, wow, you're the CFO. Well, how big is Wilson?" And I would tell them the size and they would always come back with this kind like, "Oh, I thought you guys would be much bigger than that." And I think it shows the power of the brand. And what I want the leaders to do is know that there's the possibility to unlock that, and I don't want them to hold us back and I want us to do these things that we're talking about is to just build this emotional brand connection with consumers. I want us to expand from equipment into apparel. I want us to provide this retail experience that people can truly experience Wilson in a way that's not possible anywhere else. That's what I want our leaders to do.

Damon Klotz:

When you shared that, it reminded me of a moment that I had early on in my Culture Amp days where I was at in an event and someone was like, "Oh, you work a Culture Amp?" I'm like, "Yeah." They're like, "Oh, I see your brand everywhere. How many people work there? 300, 400?" I'm like, "No, like 30 people." They're like, "What?" I'm like, "Yeah, 30." And I think that shows the power of a very, obviously, powerful brand, but also a brand that has resonated and created some sort of moments that matter to these people out there that they see it in more places. That they just assume that it takes a lot more people in order to achieve that goal. And I think it's actually a powerful reminder that it doesn't always take tens of thousands of people to do work that matters or to change the world. We can do it with a group of people who are all come together and collectively care about something if you're all moving in the same direction.

Damon Klotz:

So I always see a story like that as not like, "Oh, you thought we were bigger? You thought we were more successful?" It's like, "No, we should be proud of how much we've achieved with the team that we do have."

Joe Dudy:

And that's the way I look at it too. And I think it just shows the potential that's out there.

Damon Klotz:

So I can't leave without asking this question, because I know other people will probably say, "How did you have the CEO of Wilson and you didn't ask about this?" What was it like inside of the company when the movie Castaway came out?

Joe Dudy:

That was a very proud moment and it is one of the unique opportunities that I had through my experience, but you'd be surprised that didn't cost us anything. The brand impact was amazing. Even today, when you tell people you work for Wilson, that's like the number one thing that comes up and we still sell volleyballs today. They even did a parade to bring the volleyball back home to Wilson. So there was a parade and they brought the ball back to our headquarters. It was a proud moment. And we did win a Oscar for Inanimate Object for a Movie, and we had to accept it from the Oscars. It was the part where it's not on the main show. So I was very proud.

Joe Dudy:

But my special story from that was I told you I became that finance director in the team sports division, which volleyball was under that group. And it was great because when that movie came out, we sold, I'll just throw out some numbers, it was about 10 million incrementally in volleyballs, which was a big deal for our volleyball business. And then we went to the planning process for the next year and I said, "Hey, we got to take that $10 million out, because we're not going to do that again." And it's a one time opportunity. The movie's not... There's no sequel.

Joe Dudy:

And it turned out that Walmart called and said, "We're releasing the DVD and we'd like to package the DVD with the ball." And then it just blew up again and it was like another $10 million. And then I said, "Okay, we got to take it out again for the next year." And Dale Earnhardt Jr. Won a NASCAR race with the Castaway volleyball in the passenger seat, and then the NASCAR fans went crazy and the ball took off. So we had a three-year run of selling a lot, but it did do a lot for the brand and it shows you the power of that. It's amazing that after, I don't know if that movie's been out, I know it's been more than 20 years, or if it's 25, but nobody forgets about it. And they associate it with Wilson, almost everyone that finds out I worked there. It's just crazy.

Damon Klotz:

Am I right in also thinking that there was a special edition where they actually had the painted face on the Wilson volleyball that was also being sold at one stage?

Joe Dudy:

It was and it still is. You can still buy one. If you go to wilson.com, you'll still find one.

Damon Klotz:

You can still buy it today?

Joe Dudy:

And if it's not there, I'll get it back on there, but I'm pretty sure it's there. I've got one in my basement somewhere over here.

Damon Klotz:

Joe, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the Culture First Podcast. I think it was very evident from all of your answers that you are a Culture First CEO and leader, and that you care deeply about both the people as well as the brand and you understand the connection between the two. And I think it's definitely many people listening to this show would love to work under someone like you who understands that that is how you do amazing work. That is how you build an amazing brand is by focusing on the people, focusing on the how of the work. So I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing your history and your stories with us.

Joe Dudy:

Well, thank you, Damon. I appreciate it. It's been an honor to share our story and we're really proud and maybe we'll see you again in another year or two and we'll see where this goes. And we expect to be bigger and more powerful and we'll be telling more stories about our brand and apparel and retail. So we're excited. But thank you.

Damon Klotz:

Definitely. Looking forward to the follow-up conversation. Well, there you have it, part one in this multi-part series with Wilson Sporting Goods. It was a huge honor to have Joe on the show. Wilson is a storied brand, and I'm sure many of you would've had one of their products in your life at some stage. But this was actually one of the first times that Joe's gone on the record to share how they really think about their work and the company culture there. I really hope that more CEOs are willing to not only say that they put culture first, but actually be willing to sit down and talk about the specifics of it. I also really hope that you enjoyed the final section about the Wilson volleyball. Like I said, I wanted to ask that question, but I thought it was a great way to really bring the episode home. For me, it's a really great example of the power of creativity, symbolism, storytelling and connecting your employees is something much bigger than just the immediate use case for a product.

Damon Klotz:

You could hear in Joe's tone and his voice that this is something that they're proud of. This is something that is still part of their story to this day. And we also heard about the commercial benefit to it as well. So I'm sure you're wondering what's next in this multi-part series. Well, next up we're going to be speaking with Wilson's Global Vice President of People, Jeff Watts. Jeff will be reflecting on what he heard, Joe sharing this episode, as well as get into the real actions that they're taking to put culture first. So that wraps up this episode of The Culture First Podcast.

Damon Klotz:

If you've enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to the team here at Culture Amp if you could subscribe to this show, leave a review with a takeaway that stood out to you and then share it on social media. And if you do share it, please make sure that you tag me @damonklotz, as well as @cultureamp, so we can partake in the conversation. I've been your host, Damon Klotz and the Culture First Podcast is proudly brought to you by the team here at Culture Amp, the employee experience platform. Wherever you are in the world today, I hope you feel inspired to go create a better world of work. And until next time, take care.